Oppo Educate Me: 1st-gen CTSV

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 12/10/2018 at 09:05 • Filed to: None

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C5 Z06 with four doors and for half the price? Sign me the fuck up.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:12

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There has to be a catch, right?  There’s always a catch.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:14

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Like the C5 Z06, the interior is a sea of shitty hard plastic.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/10/2018 at 09:24

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More plastic than MJ

shop-teacher > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:26

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Yeah, I want one of these in a big bad way.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:30

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Lots of them were abused, and all of them have shitty plastic. Don’t think of it as a luxury sedan, think of it as a cut-rate, smaller sized G8 GXP

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/10/2018 at 09:31

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The interior is worse than a Chrysler 300 somehow and they have even more of an old man stigma than a Corvette.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/10/2018 at 09:31

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Faster than a G8 GXP is it not? I’ve driven a first gen CTSV with a supercharger and it was absolute hilarity.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Textured Soy Protein 12/10/2018 at 09:32

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Yeah, it’s one of few “luxury sedans” that’s worse than a Chrysler 300 on interior.

But manual.

And dat engine.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:40

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Faster? I don’t know for sure. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it has more straight line speed due to similar power but lower weight. I think the G8 might, *might*, handle a bit better since the first gen CTS-V was just a drift missile with a cadillac badge compared to the subsequent generations. But that’s also kinda moot when most of these cars will be nearing 100k miles anyways.

Oh, and don’t forget that the first gen CTS-V had either the 5.7 (early model years) OR the 6.0 V8 (later years) . Similar power, but the 6.0 has more torque

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/10/2018 at 09:45

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Yup. Living in the Midwest really I just want a car that isn’t a total pig when I point the nose around a corner and makes me grin when I plant the go-fast pedal. The IS300 handles amazing and has a phenomenal chassis but is milquetoast as hell in a straight line and the automatic is severely wearing my patience.

3point8isgreat > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:53

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One of my friends has one. It seems pretty awesome and I’d put them definitely in the “worth a look” category.   

BeaterGT > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:54

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Well, the obligatory OMG GM INTERIOR comments are already in here so I’ll just say the rear ends are somewhat weak and can’t handle the power the car is capable of producing.

Otherwise, great motor and great transmission. I think they’re awesome sleepers.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 09:58

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I recall the biggest drawback being an interior that only their mother could love. I think the first couple of years had a much higher rate of blowing up rear differentials every 50k or so. Abuse only made this problem worse.  I semi-seriously looked at these about 5 years ago.  For the right price, I would still own one that had been treated well.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:00

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Looking at the specs, the CTS-V is only 100ish lbs lighter than the G8. I think they’re similar enough in speed but the CTS will still be a riot to slide. Just avoid going full Milky and you’ll be okay.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:10

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Oh yeah, both it and the C5 Z06 are fun and pieces of crap in equal measure.

BeaterGT > Textured Soy Protein 12/10/2018 at 10:12

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That’s subjective :)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > BeaterGT 12/10/2018 at 10:15

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Hm. A friend of mine has one with a supercharger on it and I don’t think he has had issue with the stock rear end, then again it isn’t abused very much.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:25

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If you buy it, you know what you must do:

BeaterGT > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:26

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Y ou can easily adapt your driving to not destroy it aka no clutch dumps. One of these with a supercharger is probably great fun.  The torque is already addicting, I can’t imagine having more.

Discerning > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:34

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Seems like everyone is jumping on the cheap interior bandwagon without really diving deep into the car. But have no fear, here is what you really need to know:

Engine: LS6 is bulletproof and handles track duty well. LS2 is strong but more prone to heatsoak and oil starvation if tracked really hard with a setup with much stickier tire and suspension upgrades.

Transmission: bullet proof. Close ratios (same as c5z and c6 z51) are good for autocross but 3rd to 4th rpm drop is a bummer on the track.

Rear axle: glass, paper mache, tissue paper weak. Stock power and stock tires can break the rear diff at the strip. No exaggeration. They beefed it up a bit later when they went to the LS2, but still not great. Solutions can be costly and not sure how they stand up to a roadcourse.

Cassis: good and bad. Good = great handling. Not sure why people think a G8 would be better. The suspension is somewhat firm and the chassis is well controlled. Biggest limitation is the itty bitty tires - 245's on all 4 corners means you won’t be setting track records.

Chassis bad: be prepared to replace ALL of the bushings. Not kidding. Motor mounts are crap. Wheel hop = prominent and diff go boom.

Wheels: do you like wheels? Too bad, you now have an uncommon 6 bolt pattern.

Brakes: bembo and phenomenal. People swap them into other cars frequently.

Interior: hard plastics, squeaks and rattles, and just not good.

My summary: a more communicative and cheap  E39 M5 that would take a little money to make a consistent track tool. Also, the interior sucks compared to German luxury.

jasmits > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:48

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I genuinely can’t decide if I’d less rather be associated with the stigma attached to owning a C5 or an early 2000s Cadillac .

Both are awesome and more than worth the stigma but man I’d get some crap from non-car-person friends and family for showing up in a Vette or a Caddy.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 10:57

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My friend picked one up, same day did a burnout and the diff exploded.  The case is the weak point.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Discerning 12/10/2018 at 11:14

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Sounds pretty ideal for a daily. Except that on top of somehow figuring out a $14k car I’d also have to content with $28 0/mo for insurance.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > Discerning 12/10/2018 at 11:21

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This is the best comment I’ve seen about this car. My friend has a Mallett version and I was going to mention everything you just did.

aquila121 > Discerning 12/10/2018 at 11:23

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Thanks for mentioning the 6-lug bolt pattern on the wheels--that confused me to no end when one of my friends got one used, and I was going to bring it up.

CobraJoe > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 11:28

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My friend has one, and he let me drive it.

It’s an amazing machine. Grips like crazy, great power, comfy interior, and functional for family use.

But it does have it’s quirks.

1. The clutch is weird, if you let it out just a little too fast, it slams shut, and that’s how it’s supposed to work. Good for minimizing shift times, but makes it difficult to drive fast and smooth at the same time.

2. The shifter is rubbery and extremely difficult to swap out for a short throw, and the GM 1-4 skip shift is annoying.

3. Foot pedal parking brake. It’s far enough away you won’t mistake it for the clutch, but the worry is always there.

4. I couldn’t get comfortable in it. The seats are nearly infinitely adjustable, but I couldn’t find a position that works.

5. Repair or upgrade parts are stupidly expensive. It has 6 lug wheels, which are shared with nothing else. Shocks are specific to the model, and around $600 just to replace the rears. Differential cases are prone to cracking, with limited options for upgrades. Getting more power out of the LS6 is expensive, as the cheap stuff is pretty well optimized.

Overall, it’s a pretty solid vehicle, one of the best performing cars from the mid 00's, but it’s not perfect and you’ll have to spend some big money eventually for repairs or maintenance.

WiscoProud > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 11:38

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I test drove one last year and it was a lot of fun. From what i’ve read, thanks to diff issues that were improved throughout its run, you want to get a 2006 -2007 ideally, although the 2005 are still improved over the initial ones.

I test drove it back to back with a E39 M5 and a E46 M3. The interior isn’t as “classic” as the BMWs, but its not terrible either. I’ve seen worse in much newer vehicles. 

The one thing that got me though was the distance between the shifter and the center console. Basically, my hand would be almost touching the center console when the shifter was forward. 

WiscoProud > BeaterGT 12/10/2018 at 11:40

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I was looking into these, and if i recall, the 2006 and 2007s were largely cured of wheel hop and diff boom. 

BeaterGT > WiscoProud 12/10/2018 at 11:44

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Ah, that’s good to know. I remember seeing people swap Ford rears in and trying all sorts of bracing. It’s just funny knowing people couldn’t wait to do burnouts in their new V8 Caddy.

WiscoProud > BeaterGT 12/10/2018 at 11:46

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If a vehicle can do it, someone will. The one I test drove had 150k miles and a “1320 video” sticker on the window. So regardless of how fun it was, it was staying on the dealer lot. 

BeaterGT > Discerning 12/10/2018 at 11:49

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Plus that sound...

BeaterGT > WiscoProud 12/10/2018 at 11:51

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Mark that in the “Wise decisions made” column.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > WiscoProud 12/10/2018 at 12:20

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How did the chassis compare with an E46? One thing I like about my IS300 is that it feels like 90% of a 330i (except for the godawful 5AT)

WiscoProud > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/10/2018 at 12:23

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Its hard to judge since all three had high miles, but the E46 felt more nimble, but it is smaller after all . The CTS-V and the M5 felt very similar, but I didn’t have a good curvy road to try them out on. 

ihm96 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 12/11/2018 at 16:27

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They look good, but I’d rather just have a slower five series that would be more fun. Then again tho I’m not much of a straight line drag racer type of guy, I’d always prefer a car with a better chassis than motor